Tony Jones talks to Opposition MP in Zimbabwe, David Coltart, about the arrest of and attack on Opposition members following a demonstration.
Transcript: Broadcast: 13/03/2007
TONY JONES: Those of you who follow the Zimbabwe story on this program over time will recall Zimbabwean MP David Coltart, he’s a member of the Movement for Democratic Change and he holds a position of Shadow Justice Minister. Luckily he’s out of the country at the moment. We were able to track him down in the Finnish capital of Helsinki. What do you think about what you’ve just heard, if you could hear clearly what was being said down the phone line from Harare?
DAVID COLTART, ZIMBABWEAN SHADOW JUSTICE MINISTER: Well, good evening, Tony, it’s good to be with you again. What has been described as typical of this regime, of course this conduct goes way back to the 1980s when Mugabe meted out similar punishment to Joshua Nkomo, his Zapu Opposition Party then. It’s entirely consistent with this regime. It’s an indication of the paranoia felt by Robert Mugabe and the regime now because this clearly is a new step in this campaign. For the last four or five years they haven’t actually targeted senior leaders in the way they’ve done this past weekend.
TONY JONES: You’ve accused the police in the regime in this case of actually torturing opposition figures. Does that include Morgan Tsvangirai to your belief?
DAVID COLTART: Absolutely. Morgan Tsvangirai and the other activists mentioned by Mr Mugabe. Let me just stress that when Morgan Tsvangirai and the other leaders such as Arthur Mutambara were arrested on Sunday, they were arrested in their vehicles. They weren’t arrested in a public venue at the rally. They were taken out of their vehicles and straight into police custody. So they could only have received these injuries at the hands of the police and that is torture, in my book.
TONY JONES: What other evidence of torture are you hearing from the people on the ground? I mean we’ve just heard this very graphic account of one opposition figure, a woman, who has her ear partially severed?
DAVID COLTART: Well, there’s obviously the physical assaults that have been described to us but there’s also the denial of access to legal practitioners. As you know, our legal team had to go to court yesterday because they had been refused access to lawyers. We didn’t know where most of the people detained were held and of course, as so often happens, when there is a denial of access, that in itself facilitates torture. The other aspect of torture, of course, is the denial of access to medical treatment. It’s quite clear from what’s been described to me and on your program this evening that Morgan Tsvangirai, Arthur Mutambara and many others have suffered very severe injuries. So all of that constitutes torture in terms of the International Convention Against Torture.
TONY JONES: Let’s go over, if we can, how this began. It was, you say, they were taken out of their cars on Sunday but there must have been another rally somewhere, because one opposition activist was shot in the chest by police and killed and others are in hospital injured?
DAVID COLTART: Well, this goes back three weeks, in fact, Tony. About three weeks ago the Minister for Home Affairs and Commissioner of Police announced a countrywide ban against all political meetings. This meeting called on Sunday was not called by political parties, it was called by an organisation called Save Zimbabwe Campaign which is an amalgam of political parties of church group, human rights groups and they exploited the loophole in our oppressive security legislation which says that meetings that are religious in nature are exempt from these police bans. And as a result Morgan Tsvangirai, Arthur Mutambara, the other leaders, church leaders, human rights leaders like Madhuku went to this venue and the police had encircled it, there was a water cannon and they basically barred everyone from getting in. As some of the young supporters tried to get into the venue – they came in great numbers – I understand in their thousands, and there were clashes between those young men and women and the riot police which culminated in the shooting to death of one person, Gift Tandari.
TONY JONES: Gift Tandari’s funeral apparently is happening in Harare as we speak. Surely these events are going to spark even more violence?
DAVID COLTART: Well, not as far as the opposition is concerned. The one thing we have been consistent about in the last seven years has been our commitment to non-violence. We will certainly not encourage that violence take place at that funeral or at any other event for that matter. But we’re dealing with a very brutal regime, as I said earlier, a paranoid regime that clearly now has determined that it has to up the ante and intimidate not just supporters but leaders, and so there’s always the danger that the regime will use excessive force in trying to quell the numbers of people attending things like rallies and funerals.
TONY JONES: It [will] be hard won’t it, over time, to keep your young people activists like Gift Tandari in check?
DAVID COLTART: Tony, this is what I have been warning about and many of us in the human rights community. Those of us who were in the human rights community long before we went into politics, we warned that if the Zanu PF regime didn’t allow people to legitimately express their concerns and opinions of what was going on in the country, if they tried to place a lid on this boiling pot, that ultimately it would explode and tragically that’s what we’re seeing in Zimbabwe now. And let me say this as well, that the international community, especially Southern African leaders, are complicit in this because they have allowed the Zimbabwean crisis to grow and to develop to the catastrophic state it is now in, and if there isn’t some form of intense diplomatic activity to try and bring Robert Mugabe to his senses, bring his party to its senses, this crisis will escalate and I foresee a lot of bloodshed and a possible destabilisation of the whole of Southern Africa.
TONY JONES: We’re hearing at the moment very little from Southern African leaders but we are starting to hear from the UN, the human rights commissioner has come out today and made some very strong statements. What do you expect to hear from other world leaders in Australia and other places?
DAVID COLTART: Well, we need to resolve this crisis. The main thrust has to come from South Africa, Mozambique and Botswana – our neighbours. What we would expect from the Australian Government is some proactive diplomatic activity. We haven’t seen the Australian Foreign Minister in South Africa or the Finnish Foreign Minister for that matter in South Africa but we do need, as I say, some proactive diplomatic people to come to South Africa to express the world’s concern. There’s no point speaking to the Zanu PF regime. They are simply deaf to pleas from the rest of the world but we do need the rest of the world to tell Southern Africa that this is an important issue that it needs to be resolved urgently. We believe South Africa, Mozambique, Botswana won’t actually hear that message unless world leaders come to Southern Africa to express their concerns.
TONY JONES: You include the Australian Foreign Minister or Prime Minister in that, do you? You think some pressure from Australia might make some difference?
DAVID COLTART: One always has to be careful about the so-called white Commonwealth because Robert Mugabe has exploited that in the context of Africa saying this is simply a racist issue, that the Australian Government is only concerned about Zimbabwe because of white farmers. Of course that is nonsense. So in response to you, what I say is that it would be wrong for the Australians to work in isolation, but if the Australians could work vigorously within the Commonwealth, for example, and get the Indians on board, the Caribbean countries on board and of course African Commonwealth members to develop a concerned block, and that in turn should then engage in diplomatic activity in the region itself with our neighbours.
TONY JONES: Now do you know why Robert Mugabe has suddenly started this very severe crackdown? I know there’s a bit of a history of it. Last year it was the trade unions, now it’s the turn of the opposition figures but this seems to be quite widespread. We’re hearing now that students are being arrested, that people are being arrested in other towns and some are being injured.
DAVID COLTART: I think this is a sign of an embattled Robert Mugabe. In December last year he had his Party Congress and tried to extend his term of office, which was rejected. Let me say this, that there’s a lot of opposition to what is happening within Zanu PF itself. So personally he is politically embattled. His plans to extend his term of office by a mere constitutional amendment appear to have been frustrated. That situation is compounded by the economic collapse. Figures released by the Reserve Bank, these are government figures last Friday, indicate that inflation is now running at 1,700 per cent and that is conservative. The real figure is above 2,000 per cent. In the course of the last few weeks, doctors, teachers, civil servants and even policemen and the Military have either gone on strike or indicated that they are completely dissatisfied. So the noose is tightening and he’s doing what he knows best. He comes from a guerrilla background and he’s coming out fighting. And I think that that is why clearly the instruction has gone out to those responsible for this brutality over the last few days that they have complete licence to do as they choose.
TONY JONES: I’m interested to hear you say that there may be opposition within Zanu PF, his own party and you’ve actually called openly for those people to give up their silence and start talking about what is going on in their own country and start being active within that party. Do you think that will happen?
DAVID COLTART: Well, there’s a lot of fear within Zanu PF. Zanu PF has a long history of brutality even in its own ranks. Herbert Chitepo, the first president of Zanu PF, was assassinated by people within Zanu PF in Zambia in the late 1960s, early 1970s. And many other people have been assassinated within Zanu PF. So the brutality the Zanu PF show towards the opposition is also directed against its own members and of course they are in the unique position in that they know exactly who directs it and how it happens. So there’s a lot of fear that they have to overcome, but what is happening within Zanu PF is that many of the businessmen within Zanu PF are now themselves being affected by the economic collapse. So in an effort to protect their own livelihood they now recognise that Robert Mugabe simply has to go if the country is going to stabilise and the economy is going to be restored.
TONY JONES: A final question, because we’ve heard how severely beaten Morgan Tsvangirai was, that I think is the first time it’s happened to him to this degree. Are you at all concerned for his life?
DAVID COLTART: Well, let me stress it’s not the first time that Morgan Tsvangirai has been beaten. In 1999 ZanuPF thugs came to his office on the seventh floor of a building and tried to throw him out and left him badly beaten. So in fact it’s the second time he’s been beaten like this. Arthur Mutambara, the other senior leader arrested in the course of the last few days, was a student leader in the 1980s and was also beaten then. So these are men who have gone through this but to answer your question, yes, of course we fear for Morgan Tsvangirai, for Arthur Mutambara, for all the other leaders, for anyone who chooses to stick their necks out. Ironically the one thing that the last few days has achieved is that Morgan Tsvangirai’s profile has been raised once again in the international community and in that there is some safety.
TONY JONES: David Coltart, it is perhaps lucky, as I said at the beginning, that you are out of the country at the moment so that you can talk to us because it’s very hard to talk to people who are in prison in Zimbabwe at the present moment but we thank you very much for taking the time to come and speak to us again tonight.
DAVID COLTART: Thank you, Tony. Good evening.